I am working in 2D with millwork on 2 walls.  I want to draw a 'L'-shaped countertop.  We have created our own 'L'-shaped countertop product.  When I draw the countertop, (as usual, Microvellum prompts where to draw the product) I select the point on the plan view and then on the elevation view where the countertop is to begin.  The countertop is drawn on that elevation where I selected the point, but does not show up on the other elevation.

I also tried the extruded countertop product provided by Microvellum.  The countertop is drawn in plan view, but not in any of the elevaton views.  I think it's because the extruded countertop product is entended for working in 3D.

Dont quote me here, but I think I remember having that problem when I first started to use MV around a year and a half ago.  The answer I was given was that the top is somehow associated with the wall that you put it against and not the other wall that is adjacent to it.  I never got a fix for that.  Same was said for the reason that you draw cabinets on one wall then when you put them on the other wall, you SHOULD see the side profile of the cabinets that you put on the the first wall but you do not because MV does not understand it.  MV is not "looking" at that wall from a distance like you would if you had drawn it in 3d and went to view it, instead it just looks at that wall only and disregards anything that is associated with any other wall.

 I think I confused myself there.  Hope someone can follow me and maybe explain it better.

This is off subject a little but still pertains.  I have abandoned MV's 2D drawing approach and instead draw everything in 3D.  Then I use ACAD's "sectionplane" command to generate plan, elevation and section views.  This creates a block that you can quickly edit and dimension.  There is a thread floating around with a video link that shows this in action.  I watched and never looked back and now do all of my detailing using that command.  Hope that helps a little.

 I think this might be the video that you are talking about.

http://forums.microvellum.com/forums/p/584/1603.aspx#1603 

 Thanks for you input, Derek.   Seeing how other people use MV is very helpful.

Our company's original intentions was also to draw everything in 3D.  This is how we do it now, but using a different program.  The only thing that is making us consider drawing in 2D first and converting to 3D after is the fact that there is little to no detailing provided by MV in 3D.  MV does provide the means to provide dynamic details and dimensions with ability add custom details quite easily.  Our goal is to have MV do most of the work.  But 2D does lack some capabilities.  Any opinions?

Tom,

    I've been thinking along the same lines as you.  I've always done anything complicated in 3D, but I'm wondering if I can't get away with doing a kitchen in 2d,then drawing it as 3D.  If you can get away with this, I think you'd have the best of both worlds.  You can draw VERY fast in 2D with MV, compared to 3D, and it automates alot of the dimensions and labeling.  Then you could convert the plan view to 3D with that command (can't remember the name right now)  and you'd have your iso views.  any additional views you wanted you could then get with the sectionplane command. 

Again, I haven't actually tried this yet like this.  Currently I draw in 3D and use sectionplane commands much like posted above.  Perhaps if we all work together we can hybridize a system composing of the best of the two drawing methods!  

One workaround that I use for 2D countertop was to create a countertop product that I can control the end conditions like Finished Ends, Butt Joints and Mitre Joints. I will place the ctop like any other product by selecting the wall then I have prompts to control the L-return conditions like a mitre or a butt joint. It will draw in on the plan and on the elevation. I do the same process on the returning wall and indicating on the prompts the joint condition on the first wall to match it.

The countertop product will work for wall to wall conditions, wall and finished end conditions and butt or mitre joint conditions. 

Marksman:

 I think this might be the video that you are talking about.

http://forums.microvellum.com/forums/p/584/1603.aspx#1603 

Yes, that is the video.

Tom Chow:

 Thanks for you input, Derek.   Seeing how other people use MV is very helpful.

Our company's original intentions was also to draw everything in 3D.  This is how we do it now, but using a different program.  The only thing that is making us consider drawing in 2D first and converting to 3D after is the fact that there is little to no detailing provided by MV in 3D.  MV does provide the means to provide dynamic details and dimensions with ability add custom details quite easily.  Our goal is to have MV do most of the work.  But 2D does lack some capabilities.  Any opinions?

TC,

You can use the section command found in the product library menu to draw sections of 3D cabinets just as you might for 2D.  These sections do a fairly good job but the one thing that I don't like about it is that you can only choose one cabinet at a time whereas the sectionplane command is just that a section of the entire plane including all products, room elements, molding, etc you have drawn.  I find it gives me a better starting point, even if I have to do the dimensioning.

olanderd:

This is off subject a little but still pertains.  I have abandoned MV's 2D drawing approach and instead draw everything in 3D.  Then I use ACAD's "sectionplane" command to generate plan, elevation and section views.  This creates a block that you can quickly edit and dimension.  There is a thread floating around with a video link that shows this in action.  I watched and never looked back and now do all of my detailing using that command.  Hope that helps a little.

Question for you. How do you associate item numbers with products when the cutlist hits the floor? I am also leaning towards abandoning 2D drawings, but this is one of the many problems I have been facing. Any solution would be helpful. Also another key question. How do you handle inputting filed measures? Any solution would be helpful.

Thanks,

 Alex

I miss answering technical support questions...

bledsoe17:

Question for you. How do you associate item numbers with products when the cutlist hits the floor? I am also leaning towards abandoning 2D drawings, but this is one of the many problems I have been facing. Any solution would be helpful. Also another key question. How do you handle inputting filed measures? Any solution would be helpful.

Thanks,

 Alex

Alex,

We cut everything with our nested router.  When I send a job out to the floor all they get is a set of shop drawings and a package of panel drawings, using the MVLN command.  The router man then labels them as they come off the machine.  The shop drawings have the cabinet number which consists of project_number.incremental_cabinet_number.  I have found that this all the floor needs.  So I really never run reports.  As for field measuring I have my install crew do this.  This gives them an opportunity to get familiar with the job and point out any thing that needs to be changed before production.  If I have a cabinet or two that needs changed I make the change in MV and then I just make notes on the shop drawings in pen before it goes into production.  I used to try and give them pretty and clean drawings but I spent way too much time making changes.  It is not the most sophisticated solution but it works or us.

Derek,

     So, how are you getting the product #'s onto the actual drawings?!?  are you using MV's item #'s or some other method. 

The all mighty pen. The shop drawings that go to the architect are clean but out on the floor I just simply write the job number on the first page and then just write the cabinet number on the elevation.  Once again not that glamorous but it works.  I have read some threads that have successfully been able to rotate the product numbers so they will appear in the elevations but I have not tried to do it myself yet.  I am sure that a lisp routine could be written to do the same but until my pen runs out of ink I am going to spend my time getting product out to the shop floor and not spend it developing MV.  I would like to see that on the to do list someday for them to have product numbers visible on the elevations instead of the plan.

This is off subject to the 'L'-shaped countertops since it addresses the product tags.  Here is how we handled out Product Tags, written in conversational rather than tutorial English... 

I turned our 3D Item Tag 90 degrees, moved it up 18" (+Z) and toward the "front" 18" (-Y).  Might have adjusted it a little in the +X also.  Created a new layer called "TAGS" and put it on there. Close & save.

Since the default workspace I created has a pointer @ 0,0,0, I know where to start drawing walls/product (created a layer called "Reference Points", turned it light blue and set it to not print - ever!).  I then made a line with three wall sections about 300" to the +X.

Next, I created our layout in paper space: 1 viewport for plan, 1 for elevation and 3 for sections.  Set the viewports to our scale sizes (3/4, 3/4, and 1-1/2 for the sections), their viewing directions (Top, Front, Top, Top, Top) and lined them up in their windows.

I leave the template set to 2D showing hidden lines for two reasons: In Paper Space you can get the dimensions to tag onto the lines a lot easier and give the dimensions of the product and not the paper space area.  Secondly, you can pan/zoom a lot quicker without hidden lines.  Don't hide them until you are ready to print/examine the page.

In the plan view, I turned off the "TAGS" layer.  Close & Save.

Now, when we draw, the plan view is reasonably close to being perfectly centered in our "plan view" and the tags don't show.  About 90% of the time all we have to do is move the plan and/or the elevation a tiny bit to the right in the window.  Elevation dimensions are done in paper space, Section dimensions were done in Workspace.  A quick dimension, continue dimension in the Elevation window, move a Section callout (I have 3 already premade in Paperspace to correspond to the Section windows) left or right, and then turn off hidden lines in the Elevation and Plan window and I'm done.

The Elevation shows the product tags.  We move a few down to be over the products (such as kicks, counters, valances) but most are already perfectly fine in front of the products, especially all the cabinets.  This places a perfect label over each product.

The Sections, of course, are not a problem since there are no product tags there.

Wonder if MV needs someone to write their user manual?  I find it lacking, especially when it comes to managing workflow and explaining features.  It sometimes feels like the Chinease translation, "The Product button will make products.  The Machining button will allow you to machine the parts in a product."  Maybe I need to write an add-on book to MV?  Wonder if it would sell?

Wm